Full webinar audio recording: https://vimeo.com/431667107
(transcript does contain inaccuracies due to software errors)
David Pennetta (00:00):
So Rachel part of what we want to sort of understand a little bit, maybe we could start about you talking about the six foot office, the six feet office concept. It may be what we might see going back.
Rachel Casanova (00:17):
Sure. Um, so you may have read about the six feet office, which really was a prototype that came out about nine weeks ago with forever at this point. Um, what we've now seen is a lot of people continuing to execute on that. So it's as simple as principles of people keeping that physical distance that has been advised by the CDC. Uh, perhaps the easiest part is knowing how to sit at desks that are six feet apart. The complexity gets into circulation. The complexity gets into shared spaces, whether that be bathrooms, pantries, and then even as we've tried to figure out that element, it's also, how do I access the office space that I'm going to, so how do we enter buildings? How do we get through elevators, um, to the point that we get to our desks? So when we initiated that prototype, we also were under the impression that, um, what we were touching that surfaces with carrying the transmission quite a bit, we now understand that to be a lower risk.
Rachel Casanova (01:21):
Um, but it certainly said ops and things we've talked about in the past that have become the right investments for companies and building make now, um, which is around how do we make things touchless? And with technology with touchless comes some analog solutions. You've probably heard about things like a copper key or a device that allows us to touch things without our physically touching it. And then as we think about some of the technological solutions like elevators, that can be called from our phone, um, we think about some of the greater investments that we'll see in the real estate industry that provide that capability that goes beyond. So some of that, when we bring more automation and more technology also allows us to, to monitor and to make transitions over time. So while the six feet office concept started as a physical principle, it's taken on a lot more as we think about how to come to work as safely as we can.
David Pennetta (02:14):
Okay. And Bob, we have a question for you is you've got companies, employers, and then you have landlords and like who's responsible for what
Robert Miata (02:30):
They're both responsible. Uh, you have, let's say if we have a building management they're responsible, of course, through setting up the protection would a building and having a plan in place, your written plan is mandated, but they're also responsible to, uh, communicate with the various tenants and what aspects of their plans would exist. And things should, uh, include such as screening the screening processes. I want to be very important for people coming into the building. Uh, if the tenant is doing their own screening, that needs to be coordinated then with the building management and building ownership, if the building is doing screening for other visitors and vendors and so forth, uh, for people that perhaps will go to a, a tenant and that also needs to be clearly communicated with each other, a screening could simply, could be as simple as a questionnaire that they go through, but that documentation must be maintained.
Robert Miata (03:28):
It has to be reviewed daily and it has to be assessable in case there is a positive of somebody, someone that came in through workplace, let's say we have a tenant, a tenant did some screening, but maybe after they did the screening, the individual answered all the questions, uh, that were necessary and they were positive. Uh, he maybe took temperatures at which on that mandated, but if they did take a temperature, uh, maybe it was clear, he was under a hundred 0.4 degrees Fahrenheit, but maybe the next day they find out the individual, uh, possibly as a COVID-19 or she has family members that have been sick. So he didn't answer the questions precisely or correctly. Uh, now they're their responsibilities to notify building management, uh, the tenant, and as well as building management must now notify local authorities, including the department of health, because the tracing process has to begin. And that's where the documentation is necessary. Everyone that walks in the building has need to keep a log.
Robert Miata (04:32):
And that's just the part on, on that part of squeezing all the aspects. Uh, and I think Rachel mentioned a few, as far as who's cleaning what high touch areas are frequently touched areas, uh, such as, maybe on the floor, things like doorknobs, elevator buttons and things like that. Building management of course, has to maintain the, all the necessary compliance, uh, that New York state is currently mandating, uh, for social distancing use of mask. And we have to take into account the areas such as waiting areas and maybe security well and contact you. If there is a vendor, then just have to wear PPE and PPE now consists of masks, you know, but some of the things that we're looking at and many people are New York state does a great job and providing the go forward material, uh, as far as the mandated plans and so forth with the key aspects, Oh, the physical distinct distancing, uh, and things like building systems, uh, building systems.
Robert Miata (05:31):
We have to also consider, we could get a hundred percent air exchange. We should try to do it before buildings open up. And especially now that we're going into phase two, uh, or in phase two, uh, we have to consider the water systems and everything is, you know, is acceptable. What is ours? We can't forget about all the other existing systems, uh, even the OSHA compliance issues. And there are, you know, quite a bit with that. We talk about all the time face mask is considered PPE for COVID-19 protection, but it's not considered, uh, by OSHA as PPE in the sense of such as things like respiratory protection that might be required by building workers. So you're doing any exposure to silica or welding or brazing, soldering, or workloads and things like that that might be required. And also part of the plans, we have to take a look at the OSHA guidance. We're supposed to categorize all our workers as far as whether they're medium exposure, low exposure, which would be the most likely for our building operators and tenants or whether they're high risk. And it could be high risk. Well, very high risk if we have tenancy.
Rachel Casanova (06:43):
Um, I think I actually have a question, Bob. So I know there's the, when we talk about PPE and the new CDC guidelines that came out are specific about having places that you can dispose of PPE equipment and whose responsibility is it, is it the landlord, the tenant? And does, if someone is not wearing a mask, for example, when they come in, what is the, um, whose responsibility is it for them to access the building kind of building
Robert Miata (07:07):
The first, first with the PPE or disposal? Well, PPE, unless it's has visible presence of blood, believe it or not, because then the bloodborne pathogen standard on the OSHA would take effect. But other than that, it could be disposed of a regular trash. So a disposable of PPE by tenants could go in their regular trash, same thing with building a building management, the systems we had before for trash collection and removal, the continue and still can exist. Uh, so that will be required to have to rebuilding, uh, in all public areas, lobbies elevators and so forth. So it's interesting, uh, in waiting areas to get into an elevator, they're saying one person at a time, but you could have more than one person at a time if the oil wearing masks, but even then if they're wearing masks only 50% of the elevator capacity. So if an elevator could take 10 people, you only can put it a five if they have on mask, if there's an individual without an app.
Robert Miata (08:06):
Well, the funny part with that is he could take the elevator, but truthfully, he's not supposed to enter the building without a mask. So therefore the requirements in this case would be, has to enforce the fact that anyone coming into the building, he does wear a mask, especially in public areas because you could have cross walking and so forth and intermingling and possible exposure, less than six feet. So the six feet, uh, so that the mask utilization is enforced by building management and the tendency and their spaces enforcement. And it was funny. We had a case like this recently with a supermarket chain, uh, in which, uh, you have to work a mass coming in to go shopping, supermarket chain security stops them. They weren't wearing a mask. Well, the individual says, not heck with this. I want to wear a mask. I like it.
Robert Miata (08:56):
I don't need it. I don't think it's necessary and proceeded to walk in the store. The security guard at that point tackled the individual. They fell to the floor. Now the police were call and now there is of course, litigation on both sides of the coin with situation. Plus the, uh, customer said he hurt his head and the security guard said the customer had punched him, et cetera, all unnecessary. Yes. Building management must enforce the use of mask. Someone comes in without the mask. They asked me to please put on a mask. Building management has the option of providing masks if they want to, if they still don't wear a mask or refuse to. And the answer simply is call the police. The local police will enforce ask utilization. My executive order, starting from the state at the state level masks are required in public areas.
Rachel Casanova (09:44):
And to that end, I was speaking to our head of property management, who said many landlords are stocking extra masks, so that if someone walks in, you know, what we don't want is that situation. So landlords are taking some accountability to say, if someone walks in without a mask, they will have one that they can give them
Robert Miata (10:03):
Makes a lot of sense. And, you know, P S the supermarket chain we were talking about, I just spoke about, they are now also providing best customers, you know, as possible.
Rachel Casanova (10:12):
Yeah. And I think it's interesting just to, um, when you talk about the occupancy of an elevator elevator capacity is based on weight. So we won't all know necessarily what the capacity is of that elevator. Similarly, when you look at capacity on office floors, people are assuming that it's 50% of the seats. It's actually 50% of the certificate of occupancy, which again, is a number that has been, it's not posted anywhere. Um, but most organizations are not hitting such issues in their beginning return that they're even coming close to 50%. Um, but just to note that that is where the limitation comes from.
Robert Miata (10:52):
I think another important point that we have to consider too, uh, is the fact that, uh, we have these plans, we have to require plans, and there are several plans, uh, that really should be intermingled. Uh, that again includes the OSHA consideration. There are aspects they can stay, call it guidance, but, you know, OSHA has a funny thing. Guidance has always seemed to become required. And by simple reasoning, the guidelines that are presented by OSHA, uh, really are enforceable. Anyway, e-course the responsibility for an employee is provide a safe workplace. So we have to look at the OSHA guidelines. The general duty clause says, well, employers must provide a safe workplace for employees. Therefore, now their guidelines, just on that, that aspect becomes required. I'm stressing the fact of the written plan. The written plan is necessary. And we'll go through a checklist that all the things you spoke about, Rachel, how was setting up the offices with the distancing, maybe the traffic flow patterns, wearing a mask.
Robert Miata (11:56):
When you get up from your desk and go to a common area, such as a restroom or something like that, limitation, limiting number of people in restaurants, all of these things, including the OSHA guidelines, which, uh, identify what category of workers should be in is all necessary. The reason we're seeing it necessary, not just because New York state said it's a mandated plan. And the upstate says, we must train all employees, uh, concerning, uh, the plans. We must post a plan and we must train all employees about using the mask and the PP donning and doffing, but we're seeing the most significant aspect of wired for this plan is in things of litigation later, such as for example, we have a number of cases. Our office work closely with a number of law firms attained to wrongful death suits. Uh, we have several of them where people have claimed, uh, I got sick at the workplace.
Robert Miata (12:51):
They didn't give me the protection I needed. Uh, so they were hospitalized and they went through some trouble with that. And we have several deaths, uh, in that case. Now we have the family, of course, assuming because of wrongful death, what is our defense of good written plan and documentation documentation of who came and went into the building, what screening process we had, what sanitizing, uh, precautions we took and keep logs. We call them sweep logs or sanitizing logs. How frequently do we clean those elevator buttons, lobbies, handrails, and doorknobs and height, and frequently touched areas. How did we control it all? And how do we protect our security personnel? I come back to that again. And how did we control how many people do get into that elevator, uh, and the spacing and so forth and floor markets. That's our first line of defense, uh, or, uh, any defendant because the plaintiff of course, you know, could, uh, come across with anything.
Robert Miata (13:49):
Everything is discoverable, but our written plan identifies and should have all the documentation of what we've put in place. What sanitizers we use, the evenly SDS is the safety data sheets of the sanitizers that they were EPA approved, all becomes necessary. And again, you would need to submit that to your counsel, uh, to help in the case of litigation. Of course, now who's to say that they get it. We have a good, we took all of the questions of all the agencies required that dictated. We do these things. So maybe they got someplace else, public transportation at home, other
Rachel Casanova (14:29):
Up to the plan, um, and patient of, um, cleaning. I know it came up in our building again, that we were not going to permit people to come in on the weekend. Cause if the weekend was seen as a shift, we were going to have to clean. So the guidelines say any shared spaces need to be cleaned in between shifts. So we were trying to eliminate, if one person came, it would then require all of the cleaning, um, to be redone and back to your documentation and your plan concern, we would have to then do that as well.
Robert Miata (15:00):
Wow, that's good. Rachel, that makes a lot of sense.
Rachel Casanova (15:05):
Um, there is a question that came in just on this note, is it is the landlord obligated to post signs that a mask is required to enter the building. And I think we won, which is, is the landlord supposed to police the common area about when wearing masks? I think we answered that.
Robert Miata (15:19):
Well, yeah, there is a communication requirement by New York state and the communication requirement. One of them is that was supposed to inform employees. It's supposed to inform the public and they were posting signage of things such as, uh, social distancing and use of masks is required to enter the building. You'll see that in most retailers now, too, that you may go into masks are required to, uh, yeah, that makes sense communication. And that was going to plan, how do we communicate to the public and to all the occupants of the building? Well, we posted signage and I would even cut, put copies of the signage samples of it, attached to the plan again, when all this becomes discoverable later on, it'll become essential information.
Rachel Casanova (16:07):
You're welcome. Something really interesting. And you said something about the OSHA guidelines within the CDC guidelines that would just release. There are, um, requirements and there are, um, recommendations. How do you look at recommendations against,
Robert Miata (16:23):
Do you have recommendations or best practices as requirements? It makes a lot of sense. Why something happens. We wind up in litigation. Well, why didn't we take the extra step to protect the public, the employee, whoever might've been infected, it's just better to go with best practices and helps for our defense. Anyone else, something
Rachel Casanova (16:44):
I'm not sure what we're referring to is the handbook. So what Bob is talking about is one type, I guess, of handbook that says, this is our plan. Um, at the same time, some of the work that we're doing is taking what is in the CDC guidelines. And we are documenting for an organization how they will apply it. So when we look at that handbook, I mean, maybe there are somewhat redundant, but one is what, um, what you have to plan for. And it's everything from the space to the equipment, to the touch points. I'm trying to think what else it's also around step traffic control. Who's coming in. I've spent quite a bit of time working with clients to figure out, well, how do we figure out who's coming in and how many people? So that first start is looking at the capacity of the desks.
Rachel Casanova (17:33):
Most clients are not investing in a solution right now to change the physical environment. They're changing behaviors. They're changing how many people will come in. And as I said, well, New York city still has an open, but even in Connecticut, in places that have, um, most organizations are enabling to choose. If they're going to come in, if their business essential, they likely know it. And they have already been in, but for other people, they're making that choice. It gets a little bit complicated as to then what happens. So every seat is presumably not occupiable on a given day. People in our Hardwell offices are going to have a little smaller reduction in that capacity, but those who are sitting in workstations, many of them cannot sit into seats that are next to each other. And so who's going to come in and how do they sit?
Rachel Casanova (18:19):
On one hand, we see organizations saying, well, we're going to have a blue team and a red team and seats, odd seats can come in on Mondays and even seeks can come in on Tuesdays, or they're doing it by a week two a week. Um, the other choice, which in my 20 plus years of consulting, most organizations and knowledge workers don't work on set teams like that. And maybe this starts to happen in future phases. But the idea that, um, individuals will not sit at their seat, but they may need to sit at a given seat that is a, an approved seat for the day, which also gets into making sure there's cleaning signage and communication that a seed has been cleaned so that people can come in. So Bob and I are working on a project together and want to come in on the same day, but we sit next to each other.
Rachel Casanova (19:06):
Now we have two seats we can occupy on any given day when we want to come in together. Interestingly, if you read those guidelines, there is a lot to say, why are we going back in now? Um, there's a lot of requirements. It encourages back to your recommendation that you spend most of your time at your desk. Spend little time in shared spaces. The guidelines even say to close, shared spaces, like they talk about vending and coffee. So the encouragement to close those and to reduce in person meetings. So if you read between the lines, there seems to be a lot of direction that says this. Isn't going to be a great environment to come back to, especially if people are trying to come back to be with each other. We started by assuming that we could reduce the capacity for example, of a conference room. So that chairs were more than six feet apart from each other. What we know now is we'd, we'd probably recommend people in masks when they're there. And it's still something that is being discouraged by those guidelines to say, if you can, don't go into meeting rooms right now. So I don't know if you have additional perspective on that, um, from an OSHA perspective then,
Robert Miata (20:13):
Well, there, there is one, one of other piece because there are certain cases in offices where people, uh, or desks can't be rearranged, there are required, especially in some essential, uh, situations. That was it really before we even phase one. And that was even operations and things like in healthcare, uh, where we had to have people work more closely together. And that even includes offices and, you know, clinics and things of that nature. So the solution in that case was, uh, and, and it is acceptable is of course you could wear mask all the time, which can become, but you could also record what's called, you know, a physical barrier as I'm sure you you've seen them even gotten involved with. So if we have desks that are not more than six feet apart, we could have a physical barrier between the desk, but then that could simply be a good plexiglass divider, uh, that rises up over six feet over the height or height of a person, even seven feet would make sense.
Robert Miata (21:09):
I know typical. So if there was there, at least is the payment, and that really comes from the fact that when in healthcare and this go into that for a second only, only because that had the greatest degree of exposure. Well, of course you didn't wear a mask, wear a respirator like an N 95 as an example, but you also wore a face shield. So that worked and the, the least amount of people, the lowest infection rate in the general public was with healthcare workers and emergency workers. And that's because the PPE works and the barriers or so in the workspace. And it takes something like an office [inaudible] place of a facial. We put the, utilize the physical barrier. So when they're at their desk, the fact the mass can come off. Uh, they can sit at the desk, it could be less than six feet to the next one, but we do have a good physical barrier at the desk. Then the case becomes when they leave, they have to put the mask back on, uh, and of course, to go into public spaces and so forth.
Rachel Casanova (22:10):
And then we introduced a cleaning situation
Robert Miata (22:12):
And then he did the cleaning. Sure. And we have to be careful of, again, the frequently touched areas, uh, you know, things like copy machines and printers and stuff like that. They have to be cleaned frequently. Well, maybe only one person should be assigned to handle and obtaining and distributing copies, uh, as opposed to many people going through the copy machine or a printer that is commonly used. So that's another consideration.
Rachel Casanova (22:38):
There's another question specifically to shared restrooms on tenant, on shared floors. What obligation does the landlord have regarding shared bathrooms? Do they need to be touchless?
Robert Miata (22:49):
Well, it's shared bathrooms again. Uh, the individuals going in the restaurant should have a mask on number one, so we could even post a sign NASCAR required. Uh, secondly, the capacity, the restroom is also should be reduced. So for instance, in a tip, let's say in a restaurant within a public restroom and in the building, uh, if it has a capacity of, uh, let's say, uh, uh, 10, uh, you know, facilities, then it have to be, so you can't have more than five people in at a time. Uh, for instance, you have say you have, uh, five come up and say in a row, well, take two out of service and use every other one and close the ones in between that should also be accomplished. Again, document those procedures in the plan, uh, and document cleaning, cleaning should be more frequent. They don't specify the exact amount of cleaning or the frequency or the timing, but the more frequent, the more frequent the use, the more frequently the cleaning, I would suggest minimally four times a day in a, in a shared restroom.
Robert Miata (23:53):
Uh, and that's probably overkilled by one, but if you could do more great, I always believe in going the extra mile to prove that would not make. And that's a key aspect, especially again, going into a litigation is no insurance for negligence, and therefore we don't want to be, uh, you know, considered negligence approved negligent. Uh, therefore if we go to include things, not only the mandatory procedures, best practices, it makes a lot of sense and we've exceeded and went the extra mile to show that we are not negligent with good employers, uh, and that we care about the general public and our tenancy,
Rachel Casanova (24:33):
Um, regarding tech, um, some company, as some organizations, whether landlords or occupiers have considered this, but it can be an inexpensive investment. So there's a number of analog ways. One of the things that we're doing, first of all, we're suggesting that the limitation to a bill to a bathroom might be one at a time just to avoid those situations for at a maximum to mean 10 pictures in a bathroom might be in a public space, but in most office buildings, we're not going to see them that large. So maybe it went from three to three or five down to two, what we're doing in our own space, because it's not, we're not investing in a touchless door. We're giving individuals their own magnet. That magnet goes on the door of the bathroom. And if there's two magnets, you would know that someone's in there and we're moving, you know, ensuring that trash cans are on the outside as well as the inside. So that if you've washed your hands and open the door, there's a place for it. Probably something that we should, some organizations leave those garbage cans near the doors, but it's other ways to get around being touchless. Um, but supporting that, um,
Robert Miata (25:41):
No, I would consider another aspect. Of course, I came up with us a number of times, but no individuals or employees that are clinically high risk, such as individuals say that maybe have diabetes or age, or, you know, other issues or other health issues, did they come into work or not? Or should they be told to stay home? Uh, now in this case, we have ADA requirements and so forth that we have to consider, uh, the individuals we can't discriminate. If someone is over the age of say 65 or so, we can't say no, stay home. You're high risk. Uh, we can make reasonable accommodation, uh, such as provide the mass will provide a separate time for him to come and go or separate entrance, whatever the case might be. Those would be considerable considered reasonable accommodations, but we need to be, this came up a number of times.
Robert Miata (26:32):
I tell someone to stay home because of the other physical conditions. I don't want to get sick here with the Corona vodka concerning Corona virus exposure. No, if they, if you could either accommodate them, that could still work at home, you should do so. But if you can't and they can come into work, you have to make some kind of a reasonable accommodation, uh, conversely to that, if you can't make a reasonable accommodation, I think exposure can be high there again. Uh, w we, he, he has, he should get, you know, she should get clearance from the health care provider. Uh, and then of course, uh, be tested frequently and wear a mask whenever they come and go. Uh, and we're more mass may be even more frequently within the facility, but that's, that's a key aspect. We have to be also considered. We're seeing that now, all of a sudden, again, ADA requirements, things like that, it's just like, let's say someone, we had an employee who was pregnant miso. Well, no, you're eight months pregnant. We don't want you in here. You have, you're a high risk. Again, we have to provide some reasonable accommodation,
Rachel Casanova (27:39):
Robert Miata (27:40):
Home and let them still work at home. If, if it's, if that could be accomplished.
Rachel Casanova (27:44):
Interesting. Um, another question is coming in about technology enabled tracking of employees. So, um, just as a frame of reference, what we are not going to do here is what we see happening in China. We've spoken to our colleagues there who said from the time they leave home to the time they get to the office, it's probably, it's not unusual that their temperature might be checked five times. So through public spaces. And so on, even though we really are questioning whether the temperature checking is going to be evidence of someone who is sick, but not only that they are, if they are exposed, if, if it is seeing that they have been exposed, to some extent, they will have a green, yellow, or red identifier that will be attached to their phone. And they may not be able to enter places if it is yellow or red, it's also linked to the equivalent of their Apple pay.
Rachel Casanova (28:35):
So if we don't have a green dot, you would not actually be able to buy something. We're not going to see that anywhere in the U S we've seen a number of companies come out with tracking software. Um, the suggestion is that you would be required to use this if you want to enter a certain space. And that tracking would then do algorithm know if you've been exposed, if someone reports that they're sick, that device would know through beacons, whether you had been a low or high risk to that from that person. Um, we're not seeing it happen that often though it's definitely being talked about. And I think that's just a matter of what people will feel accepted. Um, I think the question was, will this be short term or long term? I think if anything, while we were in a pandemic, people might accept it. But I think based on what we know in the U S we don't anticipate people will be willing to have that long term. Um, you have a different thought Bob on that.
Robert Miata (29:33):
Well, yeah, no, I agree with you, but, you know, I put that, you know, Knology, would that be, uh, facial recognition? Uh, it's it has to be first be accepted by the government and approved and, uh, and, and, you know, there's some movement now to get to have that work. Uh, but yet there's resistance to it. Uh, I don't see it happening here. I agree with you. I don't think it will. Uh, I think if anything, I mean, the things like on the phones that may register, you're too close to an individual, more than six feet. I could see that happen kind of like a common alarm. Uh, but other than that, no, uh, the thing on the temperatures, by the way, I would be careful about that with the general public. It's one thing to take time of an employee. And of course, that's, you know, during a pandemic, as part of your screening process, if you elect to do so, that's fine, but taking temperature of the general public and digital customers or anything like that, we have to be really careful because there are a number of HIPAA violations and other violations that could occur.
Robert Miata (30:38):
Uh, for instance, say we have people walking into a building, you take the temperature and let's say the temperature is above a hundred 0.4. Uh, what do you do? What are you going to do with that individuals? It's not your employee. You can deny them to come in. Well, what if it was a false reading? And if there are quite a bit of a false positives and even false negatives. So as far as taking temperatures of the general public, I would, I would exercise a lot of caution about that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend it personally, uh, because, uh, you have to have trained individuals and doing that. They would also have to identify that individual, well, you have a temperature. You can't come in, how do they get isolated? You send them home. It's different. You really can't do that. Plus they could claim, Oh, you embarrassed me in front of my other workers or other people, uh, and so on. And now I'm being ostracized. Cause they think I'm sick. You real careful, I would be careful about taking the general public's temperature.
Rachel Casanova (31:37):
Yeah. And related to that, I mean, where are you hearing? A lot of the same landlords want to stay away from it if they can, are some large landlords in New York city who have chosen to do it, probably for the human psyche to say that they're doing it. I wouldn't say yet. It's a trend of all of them, some are doing it, but the questions that Bob brings up continue to be the ones. What do you do? What's the secondary screening that you can do. And what do you do with the person, either who refuses or now that you do? Um, I know we had some technical difficulties, so thank you very much, Rachel, for taking, I know saying, I think it was a very informative, um, informative session. And I think we can wrap it up for today. Thank everybody for tuning in. We have about 25 people still on the line and I'm pretty sure you got most of the questions.
Robert Miata (32:30):
Can you hear me now? That was fine. No, you're fine. You're clear. No static. I'm here for the, for the tips. Well thank you everyone. Thank you, Maggie. Rachel. Wonderful meeting you.
Rachel Casanova (32:47):
Thank you. You too. Bye. Thank you.
Robert Miata (32:49):
It was great working with you, David. Good seeing you at least. Now he did a great job, Rachel, as far as with the question.